sig rattler vs springfield saint sig rattler vs springfield saint

After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . Springfield Armory Saint Victor. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. Joe Kurtenbach, Executive Editor of Gun & Ammo, and John Myles from Smith & Wesson discuss features of the Equalizer 9mm micro-compact pistol and new-for-2023 M&P 5.7. Sounds like an excuse to get another can like a Dead Air Sandman-S. +1 this is what I ordered for my Rattler. At first glance, I thought the PDW was ridiculous in both appearance and performance. Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. I would go with the sig. I am reminded that short barrels are inherently more accurate as there is less flexing during the recoil cycle. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. That never occurred with the Dead Air Sandman-K, but the Rattler never missed a beat with either and ejected every case as fast as could I pull the trigger. So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. During our action test, we simply ignored the sights and read the dot. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . I Have the 1st Sig's M400 Tread and it's a nice gun , It shoots great and built very good . The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. Operation was very smooth and secure. However, it does have certain things to recommend it over those others. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Stocky's Owner Don Bitz walks David Faubion through the company's new rifle stocks for 2023. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. The ambidextrous controls worked quite well, and the safety lever on the off hand did not interfere with the shooter, be he right-handed or left-handed. .300 BLK vs 7.62x39mm Designed for rapid deployment from concealment, the MCX Rattler packs a punch in the .300 BLK configuration. It has a cone-within-a-cup two-piece design reminiscent of the Noveske KX3. I recently got the Tread 716i 308, MCX Rattler in 300 BLK and MPX K (completes my collection as I also have the MPX Copperhead and PCC). They said nothing as short as the rattler. To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. A free-float handguard would likely make this the perfect carbine. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. This muzzle devices primary role is as a muzzle booster for short-barreled guns and PDWs. Compare. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) However, I ended up loving it for what it is. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. Will it perform at greater distances? Facing off in a handgun challenge featuring the smallest professional-grade enclosed red dot sight on the market, Eric and Tom put the Acro P-2 to the distance test by doing a walk-back challenge. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. JavaScript is disabled. Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. This short barrel has a 1-in-5-inch twist rate optimized for heavy bullets, and its paired with an adjustable gas block so you can run the gun with a suppressor, for example. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. The first and third pics are the rifle I examined, but the second isn't. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. We set up a three-target array with just 10 feet between each target. Wow just read the article on TTAG. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Even though the Victor has a 9-inch barrel (1:7 twist), the last feature is a nice piece of mind. SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. Don't wrestle with pigs, don't argue with idiots. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. Do Pistols Benefit From Popular Aftermarket Modifications? Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. Apr 24, 2017 Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. Looking past the outdated grip and buttstock, this is a very good rifle that deserved a much better trigger. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. In measuring trigger-pull weight, we arrived at an average of about 7.2 pounds. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. Whereas there is nothing special about the front sight, buttstock, or handguard, upgrades to the magazine release, safety levers, and the bolt catch are more expensive to manufacture or supply than a fancy handguard or buttstock. Springfield Saint with FDE, OD Green, and Stealth Grey Rattlecan Paint Job. The aluminum hanguard is 6 inches long and has M-LOK attachment slots. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. You get what you pay for, in this case a pistol loaded with the companys high-performance custom parts and extras you wont find on economy models. Operating the trigger in a controlled press, the trigger seemed to find two stopping points before finally breaking a shot. Why pay more? It boasts the nice extra of a forward flash diverter, clearing the line of sight for fast follow-ups and target acquisition. To install (or remove for cleaning), you have to pop out both pins on the lower receiver and then slide the upper receiver back and forth. Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. Like all things in life, this entails tradeoffs. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. With the stock folded, the gun is only 16 inches long, making it the shortest 300 Blackout weapon on the market. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. Thanks for opening my eyes. PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. I usually have to take break between mags. American Shooting Centers is a public range, and placing the rifle in the racks during cease fires with the bolt locked open required care because any impact to the buttstock would release the bolt. But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Sorry for long story .Your CZ Bren are pretty cool looking guns , I got the CZ Evo3 in OD green with SB 3 tactical folding brace on it . The Gunfighter grip offers an extended backstrap to shield the web of the hand and the knurled side panels that provided excellent traction. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. Probably, but not at 900 fps. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. He called it a stutter. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. The gas block is pinned in place. They are dead to me. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? That said, neither of the suppressors was really quiet. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. I just wish the right-side lever was shorter so it wouldnt bump my trigger finger when flipping it off. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. If the buttstock was somewhat stubborn to move, it was nevertheless rock solid and more comfortable than most. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Ruger's multi-role small frame autoloading rifle - Sear - combines AR-10 power with AR-15 Portability. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. Ah, the AR-pistol. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle thats easy to conceal. Pistol: Semi-Auto. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". Featuring a 5.5" PDW barrel, the MCX platform has never been more compact or accessible. What is it? Though, the pistol is a 1:8 twist rate affair. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. But thats not really new, either. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . If you havent heard yet, be advised that millions of gun owners may soon be classified as felons if a new Bureau of Alcohol, AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint, SIG Sauer P365XL Spectre P365V001 9mm Luger, Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro HCP9379BOSP 9mm Luger, SHOT 2023: Savage Arms Introduces 1911 Government Model Pistols, 5 Best 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry in 2023, New Shooters Guide: The Best Gun For Home Defense Isnt a. With a 9.6-inch barrel, M-LOK BCM Gunfighter handguard, forward handstop and more, that SAINT served as a solid introductory model. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. Extraordinary accuracy. I plan on using it primarily for hunting and some plinking. Soldiers and law enforcement who wear plates or body armor might not complain about the bare-plastic buttplate, but most shooters will want something more friendly. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. The hammer and trigger components were treated to a silvery nickel-boron coating. Reptilia sent me one of these compact grips late last year. The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. Thanks Bio. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. Keep Reading. Perfectly tailored to man the ramparts of your home. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. Sig Sauer The AR Pistol Afield. But like you, I also bought the SA Saint Victor 300 BLK pistol, which is very well made. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. Sig Sauer has really redefined the word versatility with the MCX and MPX, and it doesnt get much better than the Rattler in close quarters. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. Target right showed five A-zone shots. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. As such, the challenge for Springfield Armory was to offer an AR-15 that distinguished itself from the competition and was affordably priced. More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. So was the grip and handguard. The BCM Gunfighter buttstock offered sleek lines with no protruding levers that might catch on gear, such as the straps of a chest rig. No, but it was never designed to be. Honey badger .300bo 5. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . Joe Kurtenbach and Caleb Giddings also look at the first-ever optics-ready carry revolvers with the new Taurus 605 and 856 T.O.R.O. Im a lefty so the gas hits me right in the face. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. SIG Sauer Introduces the New SIG Tread Snakebite SE. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. Subsonic ammunition, as its name suggests, pushes bullets below the speed of sound. The stripped-down SBR version of the Rattler weighs in at 5.7 pounds. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16" I own and have experience in small arms and shotguns, so this will be an entry level AR for me. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . We really liked the handguard. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . The upper, including the mix of Picatinnny and Keymod rail, was more modern than the lower, which offered more traditional components, such as the plastic grip with single finger groove and the buttstock that was sans any padding. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. I actually sold my Sig m400 patrol 5.56 , And My Sig P320 . This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. Although the drill was shot cold, we couldnt help but be more warmed up by the time we reached the third gun. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. . For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. Jeff Bradley shows off the Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR) from Christensen Arms at SHOT Show 2023. I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. Its also rated for rounds up to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so it wont have issues with higher-pressure 300 Blackout loads. The Sig Sauer Rattler. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. Got to check one out a few days ago at my LGS who's a Tier 1 Sig dealer. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. And yet, accuracy from the bench was on par with our other test carbines. I suppose this is due, in part, to how much gas is escaping out the short barrel past the bullet instead of gathering force behind it as it would in a longer barrel. Using the Lehigh Defense ammunition, its a 50-yard rifle. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly.